Tory Rascal

In the second and final part of my interview with Tory MP Nadine Dorries (part 1 here), she discusses the fallout of the Derek Draper and Damian McBride smears scandal, and her views on blocking Twitter followers and how to encourage women to be engaged in politics.

It would be difficult to interview you without talking about the Draper and McBride smears earlier this year. Can you remember when you first heard what was going on?

I can remember the moment. I was getting ready for bed at midnight, and Guido phoned me. He asked me if I was aware of what was coming out on the Sky newspaper review. I said no, and then he told me what was happening. The next four days were a complete media rollercoaster, because it became apparent that neither David Cameron nor George Osborne could go out and defend themselves. The only person who the media could go to was me.

It was interesting to watch Labour’s approach to this; first they got [Islington MP] Emily Thornberry out to give a statement, and she looked sick at the end of it and they didn’t roll her out again. Then others came along, and they each looked sick as well. It was very interesting to see Labour trying to defend themselves and manage the media.

How did that media circus make you feel?

It didn’t make me feel anything – it was just something I had to deal with. I didn’t really give much thought to it. I just went out and did it. I had a few phone calls from David and George along the way, telling me I was doing well. They were both very supportive, but the media followed me everywhere. They even followed me to my mum’s house. Sky News chased me up the motorway.

After day four I was sent into hiding. They sort of locked me away and told me not to come out of my cupboard until it had all calmed down! It went on far too long, and I had no assistance at all from Central Office. I was alone.

Why didn’t Central Office give you support?

They don’t. They just don’t step in with that sort of situation. I had support from David and George over the phone.

That must have been reassuring.

David was fantastic. He rang me from his vegetable garden one afternoon. I’d just been on PM, and he rang me to say he’d heard me and to say well done.

With hindsight, do you think Central Office should have done more?

I think Central Office should have stepped in around day three to shut it down. I was getting really out of my depth by that point, with photographers everywhere. I really think Central Office should have stepped in.

You had a letter of apology from Gordon Brown. How did you feel about that?

I didn’t feel anything, really. It was just a bit odd, and I was wondering what it meant.

What did he say?

He apologised – I think his words were that he “deeply regretted” what happened. I just immediately thought, “is this genuine? Does he really mean it?”

Do you think he did?

No. I think he and Damian McBride were too close. I think if he didn’t understand the sort of people he was employing, and the kind of things they’d get up to, then he had a big problem.

Did you ever hear anything from Draper or McBride?

Yeah, I had a letter from McBride. And a cheque. That apology seemed manufactured, too. He didn’t mean it at all. He just knew he had to say it.

What about Draper?

Ugh. He just makes me think: does politics really breed people like this? The lawyers and I met him in the Bank Bar, and we watched him squirm and dig, telling us he was a Christian and a good guy, how he didn’t know Damian McBride, he’d never met him. We knew all of that was lies, because McBride had been on radio saying he was good mates with Derek Draper.

Do you think this sort of thing will happen again?

Yeah. I think it’s going to get very dirty over the next few months.

And do you still maintain that it has to be directed from the very top – Gordon Brown’s office?

Oh, yeah. I’m sure there’s a little unit in Downing Street gearing up to smear Labour’s opponents pre-election, not least because Labour MPs have told me that – including one very senior, heavyweight ex-minister, who told me I should be ready for a tough time. His words to me were, “Labour is scared of you; watch your back.”

What did he mean by ’scared’?

That Labour is bothered by who I am – brought up on a council estate, down-to-earth, an ex-nurse. Not the sort of ‘toff’ that they want people to think Conservative MPs are supposed to be.

Moving on to blogging and Twitter. Why did you start blogging?

It was at the beginning of the party conference in 2006. Someone asked me to blog about that, and I did and then stopped. After that week my office had emails from people asking why I’d stopped, so I carried on from there.

There aren’t that many MPs who blog. Why is that, when it seems like such a powerful engagement tool?

Because it’s also a dangerous tool. It’s time consuming, it can trip you up, be used to smack you over the head. It’s certainly got me into enough trouble! But it’s also boosted my profile, in terms of getting issues and stories out there. I don’t write it as often as I used to, because I drive into work now and I used to write it on the train.

Tell me about your comments policy.

I don’t take comments because I’ve never had the time to read through them. The other reason was that I was getting a lot of unpleasant comments from the left, and I didn’t want to see my staff end up having to deal with them as well. Some of the language and content was shocking, so I stopped taking comments.

There’s been a mini-storm recently about your and Kerry McCarthy’s habit of blocking lots of people on Twitter. What’s the difference between your policy and Kerry’s on that front?

I haven’t got a policy, really, and I have no idea if Kerry does. My attitude is that it’s about freedom of tweet – I’ll fight for free tweet! I retain the right to do whatever I like. If I want to block someone, I’ll do it and I don’t care what people think about that. What makes me laugh is that some people really believe that there’s something to criticise me for about that. I wouldn’t dream of criticising someone else for that.

So how do you respond to the point of view that says that you’re a politician, so you should be prepared for debate and for people with strong points of view, rather than block them?

That’s a false argument. I don’t want to debate with people on Twitter! I go into the Chamber to debate. I use my blog, write columns, meet my constituents. Those are places for debate. Not Twitter. What depth of debate can you have in 140 characters? It’s nonsense.

So what is Twitter for?

I use Twitter for highlighting new blog posts and to chat to my constituents. I’ve used my blog as a way to bring my constituents into Westminster, and I use Twitter to let them know when something new is up. My constituents seem to love it. They really do seem to like following me on Twitter, and it helps me to let them know what I’m doing when I’m not in the Chamber. Some of them are a bit surprised to see how much I move around at the moment, because for some reason UberTwitter says I’m in different places all the time. I had a very surprised constituent a while ago ask me how I managed to get from Bedfordshire to London to the Cotswolds in four hours!

The left-wing blogosphere seems to really, really dislike you.

I love that! They so hate me, don’t they? I think it’s because of what that senior Labour MP said to me. They see me as a threat in terms of my normality, so they portray me as mad. It’s because I am a normal person. I grew up on a council estate, I worked as a nurse, and I understand the language of the street. They really resent that – and, of course, the abortion debate. As soon as I got into that debate, I gained enemies for life. I think it’s a bit funny; I think that the extent to which the left attack me is actually a huge accolade.

Do you read up on some of the posts that go up about you? Have you read the list of questions on Chris Paul’s blog, for example?

He thinks I read his blog!? I hardly read anyone’s blogs, even my own!

Really?

No, I do flip through them. I have a list of favourites. ConHome’s the top one there, along with Guido and Iain, Tory Bear, you, Dizzy, and Coffee House.

Any Labour blogs?

Tom Harris. Tom’s incredibly good.

How do you get along with Kerry McCarthy on a personal level?

Well I used to get along with her very well. I did get along with Kerry very well, but during our last conference she seemed to be overdosing on Twitter. She seemed to lose her judgement and went a bit bonkers on it. Dizzy and I decided one day that we’d take her on. She’d been tweeting complete anti-Tory nonsense, and we wanted to shut her down. By the end of that we could almost see steam coming out of her ears! We were coordinating everything by text, and we just shut her down, blew her out of the water. Since then we’ve not got on quite so well!

And what about Tom?

Tom’s great. If anyone should be Labour’s Twitter Tsar, it should be Tom. Kerry employs these little legions of very odd people who wade into the debates on Twitter. Bevanite Ellie – now, there’s a lady! I think she’s unreal; she thinks she’s part of the mainstream of society, but she isn’t. She’s just in some little focus group somewhere, and there’s hardly anyone on the street who really identifies with what she says.

She does raise some interesting arguments about women in politics, though, doesn’t she? What do you think needs to be done to increase women’s engagement with the political process?

I really do think that men are from Mars, women are from Venus, and they look at politics in very different ways. I was in a school recently, with about 400 young people in the main hall, and I asked the girls who was interested in politics. I’d say that about 20 per cent put their hands up. I asked the others why they weren’t interested, and they said things like “there are no good-looking men in politics,” or “it’s full of grey men in suits”. I asked if they’d be more interested if there were more women in politics, and they said no. It’s just not interesting to some of them. I think they have the right not to be interested if they don’t want to be; the idea of forcing politics down women’s throats, have the A-list, and so on, is all very well – but aren’t women entitled to say they’re just not interested?

I think there’s a particular issue in that men see politics as similar to football – two teams being very adversarial. I don’t think that engages women to the same extent. They tend to be more collegiate, and the competitiveness doesn’t seem to appeal in the same way.

Do you think Parliament needs more women?

Yes I do. But I don’t think that’ll make much difference; it won’t make any difference to the debates, to the policies. The only thing it’ll make a difference for is the political parties, who will be more representative than they were before.

So you don’t agree with Harriet Harman’s view that businesses, for example, need more women at the top because they balance out male recklessness?

How patronising to men! I don’t buy into it at all.

Trivia. Do you have any particular female role model from history – and you’re not allowed to say Margaret Thatcher?

Well, this might sound silly, but I always admired Florence Nightingale, as a girl and as a nurse. She was a bit of hero for me, right from when I was a little girl and read her story in a Ladybird book at school. I remember seeing the paintings of her in the Crimean War, and what really appealed to me was her compassion and work ethic – how she’d just roll up her sleeves and scrub the wards to keep them clean, for example. I think it’s down to her story that I became a nurse. It was her ability to see overwhelming problems but not to be overwhelmed by them, and to be able to couple that with human kindness and compassion. That still appeals to me.

Who are your political heroes and villains?

My heroes are Wilberforce, Disraeli, Edmund Burke and Lincoln. The top villain is definitely Derek Hatton, because I grew up in Liverpool. Other villains… well, the entire Labour Party! David Steel, too. He’s inconsistent, and changes his point of view a lot. That’s bad in a politician. He changes his views with the wind. I did a Question Time programme recently and enjoyed a big round of applause for something I’d said, and David Steel just referred to me “the Conservative woman”, just to remind people that I was a Tory. I’d say on a personal level he’s a villain.

Do you have a favourite political quote?

One I saw recently that I really loved was one of Burke’s. It was his speech to the Bristol electors in 1774. I liked the idea that I’m the MP for Mid Bedfordshire, but I’m not Mid Bedfordshire’s MP; when you’re in Parliament your responsibility is to represent your constituency but also to legislate for the entire nation.

Final question: what do you want for Christmas?

Peace. I just want a rest. A nice big fat turkey, a big fire, a nice bottle of red – and a lovely Christmas.

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